tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571309.post1861043194940249962..comments2023-10-31T07:32:11.739-04:00Comments on Wormtalk and Slugspeak: Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07566889846240013567noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571309.post-7180142548062259822007-10-22T09:31:00.000-04:002007-10-22T09:31:00.000-04:00Late to this, but... I've a slightly different rea...Late to this, but... I've a slightly different reading of where they're going with this. <BR/><BR/>Namely, that the dragon is Beowulf's son by Grendel's mother, just as (I believe, from Hrothgar's strangely sympathetic-seeming remarks concerning Grendel's mother) Grendel was Hrothgar's son. Her bargain with them is the promise of worldly power and fame, in return for the simple act of giving her a child... who will, in the end, provide their downfall and maybe start the cycle all over again.<BR/><BR/>I can just see the film ending with Wiglaf coming across the dragon's mother when looting its hoard for Beowulf's funeral, and being offered the same bargain...Ranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14624874851189206547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571309.post-76627854848870799242007-10-07T19:14:00.000-04:002007-10-07T19:14:00.000-04:00. . . oops. Werewolf detective story! Not vampire..... . . oops. Werewolf detective story! Not vampire. Apologies to Larry Talbot, the werewolf in question.meredith arwenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12609381191469025082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571309.post-49106511139684705712007-10-07T16:09:00.000-04:002007-10-07T16:09:00.000-04:00Good observation - although I would argue that the...Good observation - although I would argue that there are also those of us, as rare as the people who love, appreciate and understand both Mozart and My Chemical Romance, who will appreciate both variations on a narrative within their own contexts. <BR/><BR/>But yes, as I said in my comment to the previous post, there is also the factor of Gaiman in particular's storytelling (I'm not familiar with Avary, so I can't comment): he doesn't do normal/straightforward adaptations or retellings. Ever. After all, he's previously rewritten Beowulf as a vampire detective story set in a riff off modern-day America. In verse. (It worked. Was weird, but worked.)meredith arwenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12609381191469025082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571309.post-25943789796016268492007-10-05T21:06:00.000-04:002007-10-05T21:06:00.000-04:00Dr. V, as I argued on ANSAXNET, I think you have t...Dr. V, as I argued on ANSAXNET, I think you have to put that Avary interview in context. He's having fun with the interviewer for a number of reasons and hyping the movie. I think it's quite reasonable to assume they're working off of translations of the poem, and as Marijane Osborn pointed out, some of the widely known popular translations include pictures of a nude Beowulf fighting Grendel. When you combine that with accounts of warriors going into battle naked that Avery refers to (whether historically accurate or products of popular culture), we can understand Avery's claim even if we want to condemn it as a misreading.<BR/><BR/>Being familiar with Gaiman's work in comics, fiction, poetry, and film (including two other retellings of <EM>Beowulf</EM>), I don't think we're giving the writers too much credit. They're not scholars, but they are serious (and savvy) storytellers.<BR/><BR/>This isn't to say that they're not putting the naked Beowulf in the movie for sensationalism, but I'm willing to take Avary at his word, to believe he believes it's in the poem (I haven't seen Gaiman discuss this particular topic), and, again, based on what Marijane posted to ANSAXNET, it's quite easy to see how an non-scholar with enough popular knowledge of the cultural context (both historical and fictional) to be dangerous could make such an error.<BR/><BR/>But then, Neil Gaiman himself has <A HREF="http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2005/08/from-mailbag.asp" REL="nofollow">called me a nice person</A> for favoring generous readings.John Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08185659717579864049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571309.post-82031349150045176682007-10-05T20:34:00.000-04:002007-10-05T20:34:00.000-04:00This is a great riff off my post and, I think, dea...This is a great riff off my post and, I think, dead on.<BR/><BR/>I didn't discuss the needs for narrative tightness as a constraint of film narrative in my post because I was focusing on what I know about Gaiman as storyteller--he's not going to do a straight adaptation of <EM>Beowulf</EM> because that's not what interests him and he's got more than enough projects to keep him busy and flush in cash--but I think the idea is lurking there in my ANSAXNET posts. The Ong-Havelock-McLuhan Thesis (OHM Thesis as Vince Casaregola of Saint Louis University likes to call it) is such a part of my own thinking that I often assume it as a given in informal discussions.<BR/><BR/>I'm looking forward to the movie. :)John Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08185659717579864049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571309.post-49158280094001644162007-10-04T23:22:00.000-04:002007-10-04T23:22:00.000-04:00But then how do you explain Roger Avary's claim th...But then how do you explain Roger Avary's claim that fighting-naked Beowulf is "in the poem!" I think you're giving the writers too much credit, though certainly you're right that "tightness" is very important to film (at least conventional ones) and not so much to Beowulf.<BR/><BR/>And I, too, get a kick out the "Oh yeah, did I mention that other creature, the one in the shape of a woman" moment. I call it Hrothgar's "senior moment."Dr. Viragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.com