Friday, November 01, 2013

"How to Read Tolkien" lecture from Carnegie Mellon now on line

6 comments:

N.E. Brigand said...

Shortly past the halfway point, you say that "despite there being ruins all over the place, the only section of the book that really contains a great deal of something being actively being ruined is the Scouring of the Shire. The word 'ruin' achieves its greatest prominence here when the beloved home of the main characters has been partially destroyed, creating great pain in our protagonists".

But hasn't the ruining already happened when the protagonists and reader arrive on scene? As I was listening to your talk, my first thought was that you might refer to the Ents' destruction of Isengard, which Merry and Pippin actually observe--but again the reader learns of it only after the fact. The orcs ravaging the Pelennor Fields or the farms near Helm's Deep? Mostly unseen in the dark. The best example may be the collapse of Barad-dur and of the Towers of the Teeth, observed by Sam and Pippin, respectively.

Later, your discussion of "laving" (and like you, I couldn't find the critic who complains about that) perhaps oversimplifies, since that word or "laved" are used three times in The Lord of the Rings, not just to describe Aragorn's work in the Houses of Healing. It also appears a half-dozen times in the Silmarillion texts, and once in "The Lay of Aotrou and Itroun".

Your description of the text generally maintaining a point of view limited to "4.5 feet above the ground" made me think of the unusual film technique of Yasujiro Ozu, famous for his low angle "tatami" shot.

Speaking of films, since you showed a clip of Franz Hofmeester's "Portrait of Lotte" (2012), you might be interested to see another short film, Peter Rasmussen's award-winning "The Picture Woman", a fictional work from 1997 which purports to do what Hofmeester actually later did. (Only about one-third of the nine-minute film is available at that link; the whole thing used to be on youtube.)

I look forward to the completion of your book!

Benny said...

The only issue I potentially see is that the Metafictional hypothesis could be used to explain certain of Tolkien's mistakes away...

You mention the Tom Bombadil/Treebeard example. Where ordinarily we might call this an oversight, in the Met. theory it obtains importance as an observation. Tolkien MEANT to have that ambiguity.

Perhaps the theory ironically accords Tolkien too much authorial power. All his mistakes are cunningly designed to make the text seem like it is old and contains redactions etc.

But really, is there any evidence that this kind of planning was actually occurring in Tolkien's mind while he was writing?

John Cowan said...

There's sort of evidence of the opposite, as where Frodo sees Aragorn just before the Company leaves Rivendell:

Their farewells had been said in the great hall by the fire, and they were only waiting now for Gandalf, who had not yet come out of the house. A gleam of firelight came from the open doors, and soft lights were glowing in many windows. Bilbo huddled in a cloak stood silent on the doorstep beside Frodo. Aragorn sat with his head bowed to his knees; only Elrond knew fully
what this hour meant to him.

Aragorn's concern is about how he'll have to prove himself before he wins the kingship and thereby Arwen. But in early drafts, Tolkien didn't yet know about the kingship or Arwen, but the scene was already present: Tolkien retconned it, only adding the words "only Elrond knew fully
what this hour meant to him."

Jallan said...

Searching for a website called "The Cats of Queen Berúthiel" returns a large number of sites, providing mainly the information most readers will be looking for.

“But what makes Beowulf similar to the The Lord of the Rings—or more properly vice versa—is that none—and I mean absolutely none—of the references in Beowulf disagree with each other or with the few times they appear in historical sources. The Beowulfian material—get this!—does not even contradict itself when it shows up in later texts that do contradict each other. Let me explain what I mean by that. If we go through Beowulf and we construct whatever we can from the hints and allusions, none of those stories are directly opposed to what shows up in the later sources.”

Internally Heremod is pictured as reigning over the Scyldings, though his reign is almost certainly imagined as preceding the Scylding dynasty.

For space reasons I will only compare other accounts in an English translation of the Norse Saga of King Hrolf kraki (http://www.northvegr.org/sagas%20annd%20epics/legendary%20heroic%20and%20imaginative%20sagas/old%20heithinn%20tales%20from%20the%20north/034.html ) and in a translation of the first nine books of Saxo Grammaticus which overlap Beowulf tradition in http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/saxo/saxo02.htm with the paragraph beginning “Frode left three sons, …”.

In Beowulf King Healfdene/Halfdan/Haldan’s kingdom of Demark is invaded by King Froda the Heathobard. Later two of Healfene’s sons Heorogar and Halga/Helgi/Hegi are dead and the third son Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe now rules Denmark with his nephew Hrothulf/Hrólf/Rolf as coregent. In the Saga of King Hrolf kraki Froda becomes Froði, the treacherous brother of Healfdene/Halfdan/Haldan, whose reign is brought to an end through vengeance by the brothers Halga/Helgi/Hegi and Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe with no counterpart to the Old English Heorogar. Saxo Grammaticus instead makes Healfdene/Halfdan/Haldan a wicked king who slays his own brothers Roe and Skat, continues with other atrocities, and dies peaceably in old age. These sources give differing accounts of how Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe is slain and how his death is avenged by Halga/Helgi/Helgi whereas Beowulf makes Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe to be the last surviving brother.

The Beowulf story of the marriage of Hrothgar’s daughter to Ingeld is told by Saxo Grammaticus at the end of Book 6 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/saxo/saxo06.htm , beginning with the words “But Swerting, …”). Here the princess is the daughter of Swerting, not of Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe, though she is still married to a king named Ingeld/?/Ingel.

Beowulf himself does not appear in Scandinavian sources by that name, but many scholars believe that Bǫðvar Bjarki in the those sources was originally identical with Beowulf. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_for_Beowulf_and_Hr%C3%B3lf_Kraki#Beowulf .

“Is Tom Bombadil the oldest living thing in Middle-Earth? Or is Treebeard?”

Tolkien includes the Valar, the Maiar, Sauron, and the Balrog of Moria among beings of incredible age. Gandalf also refers to other beings within the Earth whom Sauron knows not, for they are older than he. Treebeard, on the contrary is a kelva. Valar or Maiar or beings of similar sort do not appear in Treebeard’s list of speaking peoples, but only other kelvar.

“Does Glorfindel’s horse have a bridle and reins, or not?”


Tolkien originally gave Glorfindel’s horse a bridle and bit. Rhona Beare wrote to Tolkien on 11 October 1958 (in a letter numbered 211 in Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien) and asked among other questions why “Glorfindel’s horse is described as having a ‘bridle and bit’ when Elves ride without a bit, bridle, or saddle.”

Tolkien accepted the point raised and explained that he would change bridle and bit to headstall.” He did so in the second edition of The Lord of the Rings, neglecting to remove bridle in one place, I assume accidentally.

Jallan said...

Searching for a website called "The Cats of Queen Berúthiel" returns a large number of sites, providing mainly the information most readers will be looking for.

“But what makes Beowulf similar to the The Lord of the Rings—or more properly vice versa—is that none—and I mean absolutely none—of the references in Beowulf disagree with each other or with the few times they appear in historical sources. The Beowulfian material—get this!—does not even contradict itself when it shows up in later texts that do contradict each other. Let me explain what I mean by that. If we go through Beowulf and we construct whatever we can from the hints and allusions, none of those stories are directly opposed to what shows up in the later sources.”

Internally Heremod is pictured as reigning over the Scyldings, though his reign is almost certainly imagined as preceding the Scylding dynasty.

For space reasons I will only compare other accounts in an English translation of the Norse Saga of King Hrolf kraki (http://www.northvegr.org/sagas%20annd%20epics/legendary%20heroic%20and%20imaginative%20sagas/old%20heithinn%20tales%20from%20the%20north/034.html ) and in a translation of the first nine books of Saxo Grammaticus which overlap Beowulf tradition in http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/saxo/saxo02.htm with the paragraph beginning “Frode left three sons, …”.

In Beowulf King Healfdene/Halfdan/Haldan’s kingdom of Denmark is invaded by King Froda the Heathobard. Later two of Healfene’s sons Heorogar and Halga/Helgi/Hegi are dead and the third son Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe now rules Denmark with his nephew Hrothulf/Hrólf/Rolf as coregent. In the Saga of King Hrolf kraki Froda becomes Froði, the treacherous brother of Healfdene/Halfdan/Haldan, whose reign is brought to an end through vengeance by the brothers Halga/Helgi/Hegi and Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe with no counterpart to the Old English Heorogar. Saxo Grammaticus instead makes Healfdene/Halfdan/Haldan a wicked king who slays his own brothers Roe and Skat, continues with other atrocities, and dies peaceably in old age. These sources give differing accounts of how Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe is slain and how his death is avenged by Halga/Helgi/Helgi whereas Beowulf makes Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe to be the last surviving brother.

The Beowulf story of the marriage of Hrothgar’s daughter to Ingeld is told by Saxo Grammaticus at the end of Book 6 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/saxo/saxo06.htm ,beginning with the words “But Swerting, …”). Here the princess is the daughter of Swerting, not of Hrothgar/Hróar/Roe, though she is still married to a king named Ingeld/?/Ingel.

Beowulf himself does not appear in Scandinavian sources by that name, but many scholars believe that Bǫðvar Bjarki in those sources was originally identical with Beowulf. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_for_Beowulf_and_Hr%C3%B3lf_Kraki#Beowulf .

“Is Tom Bombadil the oldest living thing in Middle-Earth? Or is Treebeard?”

Tolkien includes the Valar, the Maiar, Sauron, and the Balrog of Moria among beings of incredible age. Gandalf also refers to other beings within the Earth whom Sauron knows not, for they are older than he. Treebeard, on the contrary is a kelva. Valar or Maiar or beings of similar sort do not appear in Treebeard’s list of speaking peoples, but only other kelvar.

“Does Glorfindel’s horse have a bridle and reins, or not?”

Tolkien originally gave Glorfindel’s horse a bridle and bit. Rhona Beare wrote to Tolkien on 11 October 1958 (in a letter numbered 211 in Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien) and asked among other questions why “Glorfindel’s horse is described as having a ‘bridle and bit’ when Elves ride without a bit, bridle, or saddle.”

Tolkien accepted the point raised and explained that he would change bridle and bit to headstall.” He did so in the second edition of The Lord of the Rings, neglecting to remove bridle in one place, I assume accidentally.

Sean said...

Even when the author errs (e.g. dwarves/dwarfs) his methods and decisions are internally consistent. Storytelling for modern audiences while relying on ancient tools without being anachronistic: mash-up at its best. Well done, fessor.